Harry Potter

Brian asked me to remove the link. To keep the continuity of the discussion I am copying the posts here and making a new post out of it to keep the original post it was in from getting too long.

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Brian got into a discussion with "Layla" on his church's forum about Harry Potter. He brought up me and posted a link to this post where I talk about my feelings after seeing the first movie.

Brian said:
Dear Layla,

In this case, I believe the author of the article is mistaken.

I have a dear friend of mine who has been a Christian for seven years. Before that, she was an initiated witch (first-degree initiate) in a Wiccan coven. She is a serious Christian, has been instrumental in leading several people to Christ, and writes devotional literature for her church. And this is what she has to say:

http://stumblingtobethlehem.blogspot.com/2003/04/which-witch-is-which.html

Quote:
"Well, I finally saw the first Harry Potter movie. I liked it. It was a little hard because of my past - the mere mention of magic and witches and wizards can be hard to listen to - but overall it was a good movie, and the magic in it was all Hollywood; there was no magic that is the real magick real Witches practice."

I fail to see how it's so different than Lord of the Rings with its magic and wizardry. I don't see the horror in it that some people see. And it does teach children good life lessons - friendship, courage, and sacrifice. After seeing the movie today, I stand by my original assessment now ... . It hooked me. I'll have to see the next movie now, since the story does continue. Still can't read the books, though. Doubt I ever will.

"Harry Potter" is not witchcraft.

Ms. Rowling is not a witch. If I recall correctly, her religious affiliation is church of England.

Not only that, but it CAN be used as an "in" to share the gospel. See

The Gospel According To Harry Potter.

I would add that I spent four years working alongside this woman in an outreach ministry to witches before striking out on my own, and aside from a year's sabbatical I have been sharing Jesus with shamans, mages, witches etc. ever since. I KNOW witchcraft and magic, for real. It's very easy. And Harry Potter isn't it.

I should add that there were other former witches in that group, and the Harry Potter division was roughly 50-50. Two of them seeing HP as "grey" with good points and bad points, and two of them as a potential gateway to the occult which they wouldn't let their kids read. But even these two would only say that Harry Potter -- or Dungeons and Dragons -- or a number of things "can lead to" the occult. It is not the occult itself.

I disagreed, because I know that, while a fantastic imagination can lead to the occult, it can lead to other, and better, things too. Is C.S. Lewis "demonic" because the Chronicles have magicians as good guys ... in fact, one in which Lucy casts a spell?

And certainly none of them would believe this whole Christian mythology thing of witches "cursing Harry Potter" or that HP is this all-powerful witch thing. Most real witches that I know don't think of Harry Potter at all, except as a kid's story, and laugh at us Christians because we take it so seriously.

That's why I wrote this. Because I believe well-meaning Christians are making something grey into something black. It is not.

Respectfully,
Brian P.

In response, "Layla" said the following:

Pendell I respectfully disagree with you. Harry Potter promotes witchcraft-which is wiccan in origin. Your friend who was practicing wiccan then became a Christian has what to do with Harry Potter, other than to promote it's evil further and deceive people such as you.

Israel tried to straddle the fence also. Worshiping God - at the same time building altars to Baal. And worshiping the customs of the people that God told them to avoid.

To somehow minimize God's direct command to avoid all appearances of evil - case in point - King Saul banned all practices of the occult out of land of Israel. Yet, not to far into his reign he lost the kingship and then resorted to a witch at Endore (Endora--Betwitched, the well accepted TV show about witchcraft), because Ichabod (the glory has departed).

In short my friend, do not be deceived. God will not be mocked. Let God be true and every man/woman be a liar. Your friend is deceived - God's Word is clear--WITCHCRAFT - the occult - are all devised by Satan. That is his religion. I tend to question your friends conversion because that old life should be dead and gone.

And as for Harry Potter teaching "good life lessons - friendship, courage, and sacrifice," the Bible is where children should be learning the good life lessons-friendship, courage, and sacrifice. Not a movie or book. The Christians life should be based on scripture and nothing else.

And Brian replied:
Quote:
"Harry Potter promotes witchcraft-which is wiccan in origin."

Wicca <> Witchcraft.

Wicca is a kind of witchcraft invented in the 1950s. All Wiccans are witches, but not all witches are Wiccans.

Wicca tends to be looked on as the Mcdonald's of the occult ... cheap, nasty, American, dating from the 1950s, and silly.

Quote:
"To somehow minimize God's direct command to avoid all appearances of evil"

Jesus ate and drank with sinners and tax collectors. His entire MINISTRY was an "appearance of evil" -- in the eyes of the Pharisees.

The command is actually "avoid every kind of evil" (1 Thess. 5:22). "Avoid the appearance of evil" is a mis-translation. If that were required, Jesus could not have touched sinners (which he did), or ate with Zaccheus or Matthew.

Quote:
"Your friend is deceived - God's Word is clear--WITCHCRAFT - the occult - are all devised by Satan. That is his religion. I tend to question your friends conversion because that old life should be dead and gone."

Three points:

1) Neither I or my friend have denied that witchcraft and the occult are of Satan. My friend, in fact, spent several years leading people out of that lifestyle and suffered severe spiritual injury while doing so. Yes, witchcraft and the occult are evil.

But HP isn't either of those things.

2) It's a she, not a he. You can read her testimony at
http://newbirthlovesjesus.net

3) I recall the Bible verse that says
"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over." (Matthew 18:15).

I will now start that process.

You are free to have your opinion about Harry Potter. You are NOT free to question the salvation of a person you don't know, based on three paragraphs on an essay. I know this person very well, and we have met in person. My wife and I have been friends with this young lady for more than five years, and when you say such things, you personally offend me.

I require an apology. You have spoken rashly of a person you do not know. If you do not do this, I will take it to the pastor.

Respectfully,
Brian P.

And "Doug Ellis" said:
If a thread on this forum ever gets to the point of heated disagreement (or to a point where an offense has been made) then the thread has come to its end, and the parties need to speak with one another personally (sort of in the line of the Matthew passage).

If I might interject one point that I believe may be at the heart of a misunderstanding here. The witchcraft that Brian speaks of is common day practices ... the witchcraft that is of the Harry Potter ilk is a stereotype promoted by Hollywood, and probably does not have similarity to practicing witchcraft. However, Hollywood's "witchcraft" promotes a New Age attitude toward power, at a minimum, and this is indeed objectionable to Christ ... though it may not be "witchcraft" as understood by Brian or his friend.

By the way, I respect Brian's points in this matter ... I would consider him to be well versed in the realities of witchcraft & wiccan ... perhaps The Orchard's expert on this subject. Second, I understand Layla's points because I have held them as well - I'm still trying to come to terms with why American Christianity labels Harry Potter as bad, yet Lord of the Rings or Narnia as OK.

I'll be more than happy to reopen this thread once you guys have spoken privately.

So accoridng to Layla I promote evil and deceive people. I actually find that funny, seeing as how I am committed to truth - truth no matter how inconvenient to me or anyone else. That's why I write this blog. I am passionate about my belief that a low-fat diet is a major cause of the obesity and diabetes epidemic we see today. I am passionate that the truth about carbohydrates and fat be told.

So, what do I have to do with a Harry Potter discussion, Layla? I'll tell you what. I am a former Witch - a real Witch - who doesn't think Harry Potter is the evil that Christians such as you make it out to be. You know nothing about real Witchcraft or magick; I do. If Harry Potter were really so evil, then why aren't I against it, seeing as I have been on both sides of the fence? I've been a Witch and practiced magick and Harry Potter ain't it. Harry Potter is pure Hollywood "magic." Real Witches don't - indeed can't - do those things. And yes, Brian, you can tell her this.

Layla also still seems to think that I'm not saved because I don't think HP is evil. *shrug* Par for the course. Ignorance breeds fear. I've always found it amusing that because I don't hold "xyz" view on some topic, someone will always say you are not really saved. *sigh*